couple questions on the millenial reign

[nicholas]

During the thousand years that we will be reigning on the earth in our new bodies:
1a.will we be androgenous?
b.if not, will we be giving birth? (i know WE won't be dying)
2.can outsiders still be saved?

I know i've heard the answers before, but i can't remember them, and i know i could find them online, but i don't trust them...i trust ya'll.

By the way, great quotes from the sermon at the end of march, "you can't a rebuke a spirit brought about by your own actions"
"when you find out who you are a lot of your problems will dissipate and the devil will find an easier target"

Nick

[Mandy Wakefield]

1.) we will NOT be androgenous (we will be recognizable as who we were on earth)

2.) WE will not be giving birth (however, those who are still alive on the earth will be giving birth)

3.) Those who have not yet died may still receive some form of salvation (eternal life inside of Christ rather than eternal damnation which is finalized at the end of the millennial reign)

[Joi totheworld]

Thanks Mandini!

[Matthew Perot]

Scriptures?

[nicholas]

thanks a lot mandy!
Yeah, do you have some scriptures i could show with that?

[Mandy Wakefield]

1.) we will NOT be androgenous (we will be recognizable as who we were on earth)

Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image,in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

Male and female were both created in the image of God to bring Him glory. God not only made the distinction between man and woman at the creation, but he then said it was "very good." Both were created with a calling/purpose prior to the fall of man. If God created a distinction prior to the fall, why would we think it would be better at the resurrection if we were then neither male or female or both?

1 Cor 6:13"Food for the stomach and the stomach for food"—but God will destroy them both. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body.14By his power God raised the Lord from the dead, and he will raise us also. 15Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never!

The Word says our bodies (this example uses both male and female) were not meant for sexual immorality but for the Lord and that our very bodies are members of Christ himself and that we will be raised just as Jesus was raised from the dead. Even our bodies, what God created, both male and female, were created to bring Him glory. So even in the resurrection our bodies (both male and female), though imperishable, will bring glory to God.

1 Cor 15:42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"[e]; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 46The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven. 48As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the man from heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. 49And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we[f] bear the likeness of the man from heaven. 50I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory."[g]

The body that is sown (some are sown as male, others as female) perishable will be raise imperishable. There's no indication that we will be changed from who we are rather we will have the same bodies, but we will be clothed with immortality.

Gal 3: 26 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Paul is speaking to both "brothers and sisters" (1:11, 3;15) about the promises of God being fulfilled equally to all (regardless of your race, social status, or sex) through Christ Jesus. He's not saying that distinctions will no longer exist, but that they do exist and yet the inheritance is the same as if there is no distinction. Plus Paul has already made it clear he is speaking to both brothers and sisters, so how could he possibly mean that neither male nor female exists once you are baptized in Christ. (plus, I too have been baptized in Christ and I am still a Greek female)

Luke 20:34 Jesus replied, "The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35But those who are considered worthy of taking part in that age and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, 36and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God's children, since they are children of the resurrection.

In the passage about marriage at the resurrection, Jesus uses terms that support both male and female will continue to exist at the resurrection. The term "neither marry" applies only to men, while "given in marriage" applies only to women. If he meant we would neither be male or female, he would have just said, marriage won't be possible b/c there will be neither male nor female.

Scripture in light of scripture....we can look at the consistency of those who have died and then appeared.

Jesus looked and talked like Jesus, he was recognizable in his bodily form as the man who walked this earth. He even had the scars. (John 20) At the death of Jesus, the bodies of many holy people were raised to life and they went into the Holy City and appeared to many people (Matt 27:52-53). Holy people must mean both male and female were raised and were recognizable as themselves by the people who knew them. Samuel was recognizable as himself (1 Sam 28). Both Abraham and Lazarus were recognizable as themselves (Luke 16)

Scriptures to questions 2 and 3 is to be continued.....

[Mandy Wakefield]

2.) WE will not be giving birth (however, those who are still alive on the earth will be giving birth)

Honestly, outside of this scripture, I'm not sure there's much scriptural proof for this theory. In fact, I'm not completely convinced but this is my leaning at this time. I do think those not in resurrected bodies will definitely be having children. It's hard for me to understand how those who are resurrected would still be having children.

Consider

Luke 20:34 Jesus replied, "The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35But those who are considered worthy of taking part in that age and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, 36and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God's children, since they are children of the resurrection.

Jesus said, we who are resurrected will not be marrying or given in marriage. God instituted marriage (according to Malachi 2:15) b/c he was seeking godly offspring. And He instituted marriage prior to the fall of man when Adam and Eve were in a sinless state which is what we will be at the resurrection. However no offspring were born in the garden, but after they were already cast out of the garden and once sin had entered them. But Jesus said we will be "like the angels" which we know were not intended for marriage/producing offspring and yet in disobedience they "married" the sons of men and had children. So even the angels were capable of offspring, but that was not God's design for them. (Gen 6) I'm not sure at the resurrection it would be God's design for the resurrected Saints to have children.

But we know there will be infants in the millenial reign b/c the Word says so.

Isaiah 65:21 (New International Version)
20 "Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years;
he who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere youth; who fails to reach [a]=[the sinner who reaches] a hundred will be considered accursed.

Isaiah 11: 8 The infant will play near the hole of the cobra,and the young child put his hand into the viper's nest.

If a woman is pregnant at the return of Jesus, does the baby resurrect as a baby? I got no idea. If they resurrect as a baby, do they grow up? I got no idea. And do the little children who belong to believers resurrect as little children to be little children forever? I got no idea.

3.) Those who have not yet died may still receive some form of salvation (eternal life inside of Christ rather than eternal damnation which is finalized at the end of the millennial reign)

I have no scriptural support for this. But they will still have the opportunity for obedience or disobedience. Since God determines the exact times and places we live, knowing the character of God, why would he put people in this time and not give them an opportunity for eternal life. I don't think they will rule and reign like the ones who are already resurrected. But what would be the point if they had no choice and he was just going to throw them into hell? I believe even in that time if they turn from their evil ways and follow the Lord whole-heartedly, they will find life. Yet at the end of the millenial reign, Satan is going to deceive the nations and they are going to march against the camp of God's people, and be destroyed by fire from heaven. But what happens to those who aren't deceived and choose not to march against God's people? I would think they would be "saved."

Rev 20 says, 7When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God's people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.

now i know in part, then i shall know fully!
mandy

[nicholas]

Mandy,
Thank you for the careful consideration of your answers and the scriptural support for each.

Luke 20:34 Jesus replied, "The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35But those who are considered worthy of taking part in that age and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, 36and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God's children, since they are children of the resurrection.

When the scripture says here that they are like the angels, is it only referring to fact that they will live forever or is it referencing more than that aspect such as gender. Angels when gender is assigned are always male in scripture but that does not mean that they are all males. Since angels do not procreate with each other, is there a reason for gender? B/c when you say

So even the angels were capable of offspring, but that was not God's design for them.

you are addressing angels procreating with humans, not really whether they are capable of procreating with each other...maybe a moot point but nonetheless related. SOOOO.....

Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image,in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

Male and female were both created in the image of God to bring Him glory. God not only made the distinction between man and woman at the creation, but he then said it was "very good." Both were created with a calling/purpose prior to the fall of man. If God created a distinction prior to the fall, why would we think it would be better at the resurrection if we were then neither male or female or both?

1 Cor 6:13"Food for the stomach and the stomach for food"—but God will destroy them both. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body.14By his power God raised the Lord from the dead, and he will raise us also. 15Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never!

The Word says our bodies (this example uses both male and female) were not meant for sexual immorality but for the Lord and that our very bodies are members of Christ himself and that we will be raised just as Jesus was raised from the dead. Even our bodies, what God created, both male and female, were created to bring Him glory. So even in the resurrection our bodies (both male and female), though imperishable, will bring glory to God.

According to our functions on this earth regarding distinct gender, i agree that God said they were for His glory. Eve was Adam's helpmate. God created them both in His image, but is God a man? We know "God is not a man that he should lie" Numbers 23:19 and so He made man and woman in his image without being a man and obviously without being a woman. So, obviously there are shared qualities between man, woman, and God, gender not being one of them. So if we are going to receive bodies that will never die and we will not be giving birth, nor will we be getting married or doing what married people do, what reason will there be for gender? and for that matter race, or slavery? After that point rethink the deeper meaning behind no distinctions in Christ.

Once again mandy thank you so much for your time. I like your points.

[Mandy Wakefield]

According to our functions on this earth regarding distinct gender, i agree that God said they were for His glory. Eve was Adam's helpmate. God created them both in His image, but is God a man? We know "God is not a man that he should lie" Numbers 23:19 and so He made man and woman in his image without being a man and obviously without being a woman. So, obviously there are shared qualities between man, woman, and God, gender not being one of them. So if we are going to receive bodies that will never die and we will not be giving birth, nor will we be getting married or doing what married people do, what reason will there be for gender? and for that matter race, or slavery? After that point rethink the deeper meaning behind no distinctions in Christ.

When you say "according to our function on this earth God created gender for His glory"....don't forget, God created gender prior to the fall of man and at the resurrection we will rule and reign on the earth. So why would something that brought God glory before on the earth, now at the resurrection on the earth not bring the same glory?

Both genders are equally made in the image of God in distinct ways for a purpose that is more than just procreation. Marriage was made for procreation, not gender. Gender made marriage and procreation possible. Gender was made to reflect the different sides of God. Men reflect certain aspects of God and women completely different aspects of God. To do away with gender would diminish the creation's reflection of God. The entire purpose is that God may be all in all (1 Cor 15:28) His goal is to assemble people who are truly love Him and are wholly devoted to Him to rule and reign with Him forever. Where would we get an idea that once He has us He would want to change us into something else? If I can serve God as a female on earth now, why would it be any different after the resurrection?

Jesus was born a man. He was resurrected in the exact same male body that he died in. He was also resurrected a Jew with olive colored skin. If races don't exist at the resurrection, what race will we be or will be raceless...like transparent? (I personally believe races will exist at the resurrection--to show God is all in all, He's a part of every race, gender, class of people and He has assembled people from every race, gender, class to make up His heavenly kingdom)

When the scripture says here that they are like the angels, is it only referring to fact that they will live forever or is it referencing more than that aspect such as gender. Angels when gender is assigned are always male in scripture but that does not mean that they are all males. Since angels do not procreate with each other, is there a reason for gender? B/c when you say

I don't think that scripture (Luke 20:34) has anything to do with gender. The question is will they marry and be given in marriage, and the question is a trap from people who don't believe in a resurrection to begin with. Jesus knew the question was mocking the resurrection so he addresses it as such making it clear there will in fact be a resurrection. I think the comparison to the angels has more to do with their function as servants/messengers of God more than anything. At the resurrection we will be like the angels in function serving God completely/carrying out His will over all the earth. And we will also live forever like them. But don't forget we who are now lower than the angels will also one day judge angels. Angels, although always appearing as men in scripture, are never described as being created in the image of God. Yet both male and female humans are described as such.

I don't think you can assume b/c angels can't procreate (as far as we know) with other angels since to our knowledge they are all male, would negate the need for genders. Again, the primary purpose of gender was not procreation, it was relationship (i.e. not good for man to be alone). The point that angles can procreate, at least with daughters of men, proves gender exists. But angels were not designed for procreation. But humans (for the most part...although some are called to be single) were designed with the capability of procreation for a purpose and that purpose will be fulfilled at the resurrection. But just because our design will have accomplished one task does not mean our design ceases to exist. I think it's that much more reason why we will remain in the same design we had on earth. To all be one gender or genderless just seems completely pointless and diminishes who I am in Christ Jesus, especially since the word says I am fearfully and wonderfully made, knit together, and a crown of splendor, a royal diadem.

Miss you Nick!
m